be hillary clinton or donald trump supporter yet there is a reason for that because there is a degree of nuance and ambiguity involved to get behind these candidates both have seen what we have a not seen in the modern era where they actually shot each other but this is a contentious time it is fascinating watching you dealing with the donald trump and. what is the status to support or endorse this candidate quick. >> i know that the center has maintained deliberations

and philadelphia and there was quite a lot less suspense of the outcome and to find a remarkable and down the conservative side of the aisle. even although left side of the ideal that is proof positive of with part of it. but not the democratic side it is a rigged game from the beginning. item of their problems as bernie sanders or not if i were him and then realized i

was played the fool and he never had a chance. said there has been vigorous disagreement about where we year going. i just understand how all of the left when they were played for fools. how are you dealing with this? [inaudible] she was on my program every friday taking calls from listeners for 11 years so my audience is very familiar with some slight was very disappointed by the revelations. frankly a larger concern is what happened to say that local control is coming down the road which is called competition from those that

appear to have the ideological bias if you look back at coverage i ctc was the most egregious as the kickoff for the whole set up bernie got 18 seconds or less than a minute. i would say that to the extent of the insiders to grab this said don't disagree by with say the media was even worse the way they treated that candidate. and i figured he had got in equal treatment so that is the issue where frankly local control of media

encourages diversity of opinion and competition. >> had had the opportunity to speak to them as much as hillary clinton? >> no. she is not generally available to the press. we discussed this earlier. >> known as one of the leading spokespeople. >> when i endorsed bernie sanders. >> she was accessible to ratio. -- to my show so i egregious not excess civil. -- accessible. but to be constitutional

they don't represent me. so as i listen to what happens then ems are old enough and to know when it comes time to decide the nomination. i am under the opinion galleries and donald trump he had gotten the nomination

was billions of dollars worth of publicity to be on the republican side. and if you mention donald trump. and when it comes to civil war with the political parties 1968. this is the nature of political parties and part of the problem that we have the this is a very

distinguished group. but to many young journalist to many people have no institutional history. i swear to god. i would never major in journalism. because journalism is fear that if i asked the wrong question to a candidate to that personality that made be popular once again, it is absolutely embarrassing to those the dog know the basic questions or the basic

positions than this question is always based on the last answer. instead of having a free can list of questions. >> this is definitely a follow-up. >> i will close with this. we have to learn how to appreciate each other's different perspectives and it is based on experience. >> and 1787 they were jews in czechoslovakia. >> 1787 my ancestors were on the slave trade.

so that is the ideas they talk about are all of us because it is liberty. so slavery is part of the of the agassi the ags. >> they did not apply to me. >> we have a civil war. wait eight minutes. i am sitting here and someone tells me what they're doing when they were free. they did not have shackles. >> talk about the ancestors. they create a system of government that allowed barack obama to be president of the united states. >> 250 years later after 100

years of jim crow. >> doesn't that prove the system of government that they created in do word beyond all love the other things that had to happen correct the system of government is the same. >> accuse said you were finishing up. >> so to take my ancestors freedom down the road. >> okay we will move on with another question. joe, within the african-american community, which is depicted to dealing with so to share within the context of this panel and if you speak on

behalf of americans which is a valid considerations. [laughter] so in the microcosm of your world but to even of that question means that you don't listen. because if you listened and we get the question of the time. what did you talk about? in everything.

but we literally talk about everything parker today and then i have people who are. >> but it would be rude for me. please. give me a break joe. let me do my job. let me do my job joe. it would be rude of me to say i listened to him this is what he does. i'm giving you a chance to express. but answer the question where do you stand on the complex? what is your position in the key issues you have to take a position on? >> now we will move on to somebody else.

>> else speak for all african-americans. >> and it is a spectrum of opinion how does a talk-show host do with them very tasty and of the spectrum quick. >> use baker african-americans. >> i said those on the panel of which you insert. don't mess with me i will go toe to toe of want to give you a chance to say what you have to say. >> first of all i am glad i have your permission. >> of course, you have my permission. >> to as of that question directly berger you just got done saying not to long ago i will not pigeonholed anybody you will not

pigeonholed be. we talk about every freaking thing about white folks talk about. >> should be pointed out we all have good morning shows we have all then up since 330 in the morning and this is normally not time mind -- not time. [laughter] >> i have to try again because hispanic, married to an african-american, zero woman, by racial children and they don't have a home in the urban talk radio. that is important for crowfoot is being served. it is not all black people. eldridge: as that is where

their ideological home is because they feel very ostracized if they listen to steve harvey when it is so complete the one-sided in terms of politics. >> thank you armstrong williams. >> i was the only black person on the edge. this was 530 in the morning by the way. >> but the problem of

dealing with you is that when i address u.s. somebody to talk about african-american issues you always say why me? so why do you demand that both ways? >> repeat your question. >> no. [laughter] i will go to chris. >> what i am trying to say is the problem with media is we're all extremely diverse. and it was the major component of this year's

election. >> >> i am a good talk show host. >> [laughter] and chris that i was trying to get to earlier as a follow-up. >> i am very comfortable to speak on behalf of the fact antiwhite ball the middle age white men laugh laugh. >> do you see yourself to speak behalf of a certain segment of the public clerics who are they correct. >> actually the one thing that has been frustrating no doubt about it, is i have always complemented the

audience as the smartest that i know because they're so diversified this party is about as diversified as ever and has been to its payroll so is an ugly? we are watching the sausage being made but i dunno how it could have been more the wound was keeping -- keeping but i am proud to have that freedom of thought. >> maybe you don't win the elections that way but the idea to unify and lockstep they're not very good at that anyway. >> what do you say? are democrats the easier target that they have a

similar appointive you? to require their more conservative as the end liberals but said is a complicated question but don't take it out of context but the card-carrying conservatives is much more unified cultural mind than those that would vote for democratic candidate that is my observation. you may disagree but one of the problems that they face today is what liberals have faced for years there not talking to the easy target audience. you have an expression of wonderment on your face. >> the democratic party the republicans stand up to say yes, sir. but.

>> back up what i think is fascinating because the standard bearer of the donald trump stands up during their primaries to say who was the worst president in the history of united states? and that was a terrible mistake that this so-called free trade deals would enter% -- 100 percent every single one is with the majority of republicans and opposed by majority democrats. and to deal with the capital gains tax.

>> this is a challenge for be. to be one of the talking points. i have set these things for years and years and what i find fascinating he beat the entire field of candidates using the democratic talking point stone now he is shifting back bbb don't need to deal with carried interest. we will renegotiate the said of going back to the terrorists based trade but i find it fascinating. and to. is there any ideological coherence. >> but to say if you go back

to the roosevelt administration and goes through his last he never made legislation certainty reality. but there was not a single position that was not classical old beach ball dash ltv position. i don't think purdy was now the party has drafted for there to do right to get those little voters. but you reinforced before it that the maturity was.

>> i don't buy that. that shows the risk the diversity of. and by donald trump using populist protectionist and isolationist rhetoric to liggett the mont paul libertarian voters of the last time emit - - but i don't describe the might take on it and so that tuesday. >> and the party presidency.

>> ebs. she will but it was opposed by the majority of the democrats in the house and in the senate. but the party has been running a scam on their own voters. to say abortion and gays but it is still the vast majority of the elected republicans to mexico's then they become president like ford did. >> what does of trumpeted. >> this is classic middle-of-the-road position

feet. >> give mr. trump wins if says terry couldn't put the reason that they cannot survive on that quite simply when i am competing on the radio at the same time with npr it is a leftist end i worked for them 10 years. . .

[inaudible] >> i have made millions of dollars. what i'm opposed to his monopoly. and so yes, if they are monopolistic companies out there that don't want to advertise on my show because i'm opposed to monopoly and in favor of competition and the american way, so be it. we have have no problems getting advertisers, that's not the problem.

i think you have made a good point and as i said earlier, on radio most of the large sticks in the country are owned by two companies that have ideological bias to. >> my, are you concerned -- >> ideological bias from the top of the company to my own program director. >> look at your program. >> that means it's a successful program and that appeals to an audience. >> in miami they took us off the air when somebody lost an election and i believe this is after -- and -- cap a share. i was beating rush limbaugh. >> it never pulled the same ratings but it's at least ideologically to the right. >> let me jump in on that as an observer for many years i did not believe there was an ideological basis to any of

these companies in terms of broadcasting, but rather their belief in ratings and revenue. >> they believe blind to the green party. >> i remember when rush limbaugh was on the rise there is a lot of mama pops out there, many said to me i don't agree with the word this guy says but he is making the ratings go up and creating a buzz. as lindsay is good for my business i'm for the sky. i do believe, and i am troubled by the fact that spoken word radio is not completely fair all the way across the spectrum, that would be lovely if business were to support that thing. i do believe that most of the captains of industry in the radio business are not ideologically driven but rather concerned about ratings and revenue. some of them have proven to be incompetent at executing that.

what happened in miami may have been incompetence as opposed to necessarily ideologically driven a lots of what happens in corporate america and we are seeing it in the extreme corporatization of the radio industry is that corporate america tends to find something i think works and that is the only thing that works. they duplicated and built it up and stick with it. they don't even talk about certain types of talk radio because they already have a predetermined decision that it won't work. not because they are against it, they would put anything on. and we are seeing that. as a matter fact one of the problems with the discussion in the media today about the selection and how low it has gone in terms of highest and lowest common denominator has been the networks and the big-time media thrilled they are getting such attention of ratings. they have sold out the soul of the country for the sake of a buck. i don't believe these radio

companies have some type of political motive. they're not that virtuous. >> the fact michael, i would i would add not only do they not have an incentive, it's really has been my experience like guys like rush limbaugh and the lineup on my -- it is extraordinarily difficult in a lot of markets to sell that guy. they are what we call know by know russia edicts. most companies are very familiar with doorknocking to make a pitch and being told no, we're not spending money on rush limbaugh. what is very real, you want talk about a chill to free speech, people who are terrified to spend a dollar and rush limbaugh's showed no matter what they think was politics they know they could reach a lot of people if they did it but they choose to not because they're terrified of the backlash they would receive if they did its. i receive if they did its. i think that is a terrible place to be. >> i absolutely agree, that's wrong. >> that's an analogy for our watchers at home, television and radio is one big -- russian is

an akerson r, cnn is is at right anchor store, that's fine, but all of broadcasters one issue, we have all won because of this, i'm not sure the country has one, next year is going to be the real challenge, next year is going to represent a great deal a buyers remorse no matter who wins, and a great deal of disgust no matter who wins and keeping the medium afloat will be a challenge that will require a great deal i think across ideological pairings so that both sides. >> i've always thought -- >> i like to point out something to you, i like to modify something i say, when i talked about corporate radio, obviously different companies have different levels of virtue and commitment, your company i do

believe having observed it for so long does have an ideological event,. >> he was committed to redemptive radio. >> i do feeling that it's only fair to mention. >> i'm going to jump in and say that personally i miss the fairness doctrine. well again, and i will tell you why, when i first started and talk radio 30 years ago, i had a responsibility that i had to address both sides of the issue, if i interviewed a republican, i had to give equal time to democrat. and i had come as a broadcaster i had to be able to argue both positions or at least address both positions. i think when when that fairness doctrine went away, it's signal here's what we can do, we can strategize, we can put the conservatives over here in the liberals or progressives over here. and i miss the days when the ted

koppel's and the walter cronkite's who are individuals in the barbara walters, whether you want to call them or the bernard shaw's, these were men and women who, by the way could argue and discuss both sides of the issue. i miss the old tv show that they used to have, counterpoint -- i really do miss that. >> what is it better? my debating justice breyer's as i did for two hours in my studio or you interviewing two smart lawyers? >> i would hope that i when interview to dumb lawyers but only two small boys. >> why would you change lawyers? i would want to interview you and justice breyer. >> that's what i would. >> were better served with the

posing art. >> but again, how about justice breyer and clarence thomas in the same studio. >> and then that means that you and i, or whoever's doing it, we have to be able to address both sides. i'm just saying that's one of the things. i would add one other thing and that is, this argument of what is going to happen after the election, if the election, if you listen to donald trump, he says what is going to happen if he doesn't win, it's a conspiracy, and and he has already and this is why i don't understand, he is already condemned all of you. all of you are part of the corporate media. and he said yesterday you guys are conspiring to bring him

down. so i don't understand how you can sit here and talk about what is going to happen after the campaign because if donald trump wins -- >> howdy feel about that? >> i don't have any problem with fairness. i think that's an individual broadcaster's responsibility not the government telling me that i have to that i have to be fair. if i interviewed the republican candidate for congress, i invite the democratic candidate for congress. they seldom will come on the show. they're feeling is if they are not addressing their voters why waste their time. in the same i think is true as to why hillary clinton would go on radio stations that cater to a particular demographic that she was looking to get to vote for her. mean you are a great radio host, but trust me if you are a great conservative radio host you would have a lot of trouble getting hillary clinton to come on your show. they are opposed to having an ideological debate, i think it's because they lose

them. >> which is why i don't necessarily want to be a great progressive radio host. and i don't want to be a great conservative radio host, i want, and maybe this is the corporate -- i want everybody's money, i want everybody to listen to me and to be a critical thinker. now, i note currently what exists, this is where we are now and there is not much that i can do about it. but there are very few middle-of-the-road folks out here. you have to get -- because either you are conservative or you get hired because you are -- that is part of the bias that exists in corporate media,. >> have you invited justice thomas on your show? i would love that interview. >> and again, for the very reason that you say hillary won't come on your show he will,

my show. >> really? do i look like i'm not telling the truth? >> i'm not accusing you of, my expression was not a suggestion that you're not being forthcoming to the truth. >> well since most of the people. >> trample come on,, last time let me tell you what happened, last time i had that walked out of the studio, glenn beck, glenn beck came on and he didn't want to come on he walked into the studio because he wanted to see what her studios look like, and he came in and glenn back said, we are on the air, and he came on in the first i asked him i said why did you call president obama races, you know it he said

come i never did. and i said yesterday, no i never did. and then play the did. and then play the tape. and you know what he said to me, oh, i was confused about his position on liberation theology and i'm like okay. and then he goes back outside and then tells his staff people, don't tell anybody that we are on the joe madison show. we already broadcasted, but i mean this is what's going on, and i'm telling you, it's crazy. but, as cells. and let's be quite honest, donald trump may have something going for them. he's absolutely right. corporate america has bought into this until something else pops up. and it will change all of us again and will be there just are be out of work. >> do you support trump on your show? >> i have made it a point not to, i have a strange opinion about my role. >> we're just talking about this. we literally had this conversation last night. >> i get very uncomfortable with

radio hosts putting themselves in a position where they are telling their listeners what they should do. i'm putting themselves in a position where if you do not listen to me and agree with me or follow me, our country will be destroyed. that makes me very uncomfortable. i have openly where my politics i sleep, unlike the wires in the mainstream media. my listeners know that i am a republican. during the primary process i did not support any of the candidates because i don't think that serves our audience. i very specifically said however, i'm said however, i'm republican. i will support the republican nominee which what the republicans running for president pledged to do. >> you made a lot of news yesterday, first time for everything. [laughter] tell people about that because i was in extraordinary foreign half minutes. >> i made news twice yesterday actually.

but we had jake on from cnn and revelation that donna brazil, his former colleague at cnn had delivered one of the questions for a town hall. to the clinton campaign. and it was in their primary. >> she originally said that was not a question from the debate and the next day the question penned by martin proved that it was a verbatim, word for for word. jake was unequivocally outraged this had happened. >> i still can't believe it, i know you've done debates with cnn. >> i just can't believe it is there any alternative explanation? >> before the second email came out i gave her the benefit of the doubt said we've all been on television before and sometimes they give you topics and advances of possible it was a question she had to answer? and it was the opposite.

i can see with the alternative explanation is. everybody is talking about the meaty aspect of the fact that she was a member of the media and was given the and campaign advanced information. to put it back to thom hartmann and the bernie sanders supporters, she is more than a cnn contributor, she was on the board of the dnc. her predecessor got drowned out because it was proven that she was in the tank for hillary clinton over bernie sanders. >> why are they not drumming her out of the dnc right now. >> one other follow question if i may, so is stuck with me earlier you said that you are much more disappointed in the media and the networks were not having a fair playing field during the democrats primary. why do you hold the media to a higher standard than the democratic party? >> i prefaced my remarks about the media by saying that democratic party was not playing fair. >> but then he said what bothers you more. >> the democratic party has very

little control, they. >> i think they have proven them quite a bit of control. >> them are controlled and they should've but in terms of national dialogue at what is getting out there, that's not their job. at least in terms of -- >> know it's to run a fair primary which they didn't do. >> would you be that the extraordinary amount of influence. >> i'm so glad to meet you, because i've been a fan, you're not as old as hugh, but one thing you said earlier rub me the wrong way when you set i think rhetorically and nobody disputed it that the reason that donald trump has the nomination is because of all of the media and publicity that he got. see come i don't believe that. i know maybe this is controversial but i think by saying that he also said by the way that we need to do our best to appreciate different perspectives.

i think it's important that we appreciate the different perspectives of the republican voters. he is the nominee because the net voters voted for him. i think it's insulting for the voters to suggest they only voted for them because they saw him on tv a lot. he did have a message, you may not have like the message or the way he delivered it but i think you should read the book hillbilly -- a liberal who very clearly identified the support that donald trump got, and he did get the nomination not because of publicity, but because he was delivering the message in a in a way that had not been delivered before. and much in the same way we often hear on radio that people were hearing insane finally somebody say what i've been thinking and putting it in words i've been waiting for someone. you can argue with the message but to say it was publicity. >> let me crap my cell. i'm not saying it was just that, there is no one thing that exists, i agree agree with you you're absolutely right.

at one point, i'm listening to him really against -- and i'm looking down and saying time you have to vote for this guy you know, he's on your side. >> he really does seem closer to the hillary does. so it is never one thing. but again, i was just sharing quite candidly what the other come i don't know 18 or 16 candidates believe. >> i believe the final count was 38. >> what. >> what the other ones were saying i was just stating. >> the rest of them were repeating the same message they've heard from the republican party candidates wear dark suits and red ties. carly fiorina said it. >> but no one up here -- what insight, what are you going to

do now that your candidate has attacked you? he has attacked every person appear. he said it yesterday, it is clear as i am sitting appear. all of you work for corporate media. i work for corporate media. we are his enemy. now what do you do? >> let me get back -- talk radio loves to play the role of not being part of the mainstream media. >> mainstream media treats us. >> i don't know if there is such a thing as a mainstream media anymore. those institutions that are under the umbrella of mainstream media seem to be the one suffering the most right now and turns of disintegrating in the face of social media and in the face of the digital era.

>> remember what he said, he is changed it, and is now corporate media. >> it's actually media, he just says media. >> so to a certain degree, it may have have been a different soundbite that i've heard and we can't listen to all of on. but i've also found that talk radio loves to be attacked by politicians. it makes it special. if all the politicians were suddenly saying how wonderful talk radio was, then what is left for this medium? and the role that it plays. >> perfect for what i've said is going to talk about. i find it fascinating, and i have a lot of respect for todd. he shows up to events that are largely conservative all of the time is really person broadcasting live. the fact that you would live. the fact that you would support hillary clinton to me stunning. my home state, our junior senator was one of the most highly favored candidates in the republican primary. he -- we can't stand him because

of the gang of a bell. he lied on my radio program, i never forgive him. him. i will never support marco rubio. it i'm not republican so doesn't matter to him. i'm an independent, i don't know if anybody else on the panelists. but i have to tell you, i could no more support marco rubio that i could support hillary clinton. i don't understand how she could've done and pulled off what she did against your guy and yet that's the lockstep that were talking about. conservatives like me, look at you, wonder yes, one day know, you never know. [laughter] but there is something liberating not having to be in lockstep. >> i'm very happy that hillary clinton has adopted somewhere between 80 and 90% of bernie sanders agenda. >> using until the election, that's gonna be up to us. and that's up to my audience. in your audience quite frankly. are we, one of the things that she has demonstrated which some have characterized as a negative

i think the positive, is the ability to figure out which with a country is going to change her position based on my. she did that with gay marriage with don't ask, don't tell. she did that with keystone pipeline and trade. you can call that flip-flopping, i'm quite pleased with it as long as she stays there and i am under no illusion that she will not stay there unless were pushing the hell out of her. i think the american people will be very pleased to have a candidate who is responding. >> so the notion of all believe what i want to believe just commute power. >> that's not what i'm saying at all. >> i can give you a list of issues by the way. >> to the primary, i was on the debate panel, now i'm with the red cross,. [laughter] but there is a key difference and i want to make this point.

i never work for cnn, seal it cosponsored these debates with cnn. in zucker, blitzer and -- it sounds like a law firm but there are four characters that were relentlessly fair. it was a revelation to me how fair they were and they ran a fair game. the difference i will be be reflected on for a long period of time is that the deepest amount of corruption in this cycle was in the democratic national committee which was corrupt to the core. the republican national committee was fair, don't trump won 40 percent, not 60% that's why there's a divide, there's too many candidates out could've been better but it was a fair game. the democrats were corrupt to the core and i do not understand how sanders -- how you could not vote for someone and regain. i would never go to the casino again. >> and you make a good point and what that means is that anybody who cares about the democratic

party, and shares and ideological alignment with the democratic party needs to get inside the democratic party. progressive needs to be doing what tea parties were doing in 2006, eight and temporary they're showing up and say i'm going to run for office and i want to be a part of this party. i want to change the party and participate i want to be one of the ones who selects the primary candidates are going to be. that actually actually happened. the democratic party was at least, this regard corrupt in the cycle. i don't disagree with this. and one of the big changes that are happy. >> one of the things you asked about was politicians lamenting talk radio. that is very, very, very real. i come from kansas city, missouri and i had a show in philadelphia but i had a unique perspective and that i come from flyover country and that audience, no professional

sports. >> a listen, for the next two weeks -- the rules when i got to philadelphia and started making regular trips to save the city, to washington d.c. and i spent time working for congressman for a time, what is so real, and i've heard it because i've been invited to dinner's and sat across the table from members of congress, they talk, they have spoken to me at times and about my audience like were a bunch of knuckle dragging idiots. they had altered contempt for most talkshow host and their audience. they don't think we understand the nuance of their parlor and discussions and procedural discussions. quite frankly, just this morning i interview john dickerson with face the nation. i asked him, do you think the guy in flyover country watching your show in nebraska this weekend, does he understand your pals, your

cocktail cocktail party pals? does he get it? and i did mean to attack john dickerson per se but he explained we are more than that. we live together and in many cases or kids play soccer together. it's a very incestuous and i say in situ is relationship. it is quite gross. so many average it americans don't understand that the people who are talking to us about the politicians that they cover are genuinely friends, social friends of theirs. and that taints and crops their coverage inherently because their next her neighbors and pals. and then the politicians have contempt for most of our audiences and hosts, not in the beltway are here in the eastern court or, that are out there because they think we don't understand, that's right think we are. >> they may not be totally wrong. and i will say, again with the

exception of people -- one of the reasons i said that when i watch you on tv and i watch you deal with international issues, i can tell you you know what the heck you're talking about. you really can. and i may not agree with his but i can tell he knows his subject. when i listen to thom hartmann, i could tell that that tom knows what he's talking about. because he's learned and he has study. now you just said, you have a certain insight that you know what you're talking about because you have seen it. i spent 30 years in talk radio i have also half of that was spent working with naacp. i know race relations, i know my

community. i will go back once again am i think a lot of people in our business, michael really, and i will go back -- they don't know the subject. what happens in talk radio too often and i've seen this, they think because the lines light up you are a good talkshow host. i can light the lines up -- it's true. it's a false sense of security. and these are programmers, managers and all the lines are lit, alton lines, i haven't had a program director when he addition the talkshow personality he had a button and the council where the lines went busy.

and nobody could call him. and he sat there and watch that talkshow talkshow personality for half an hour. can you carry the conversation. 90% of people never called talk radio. all you have to do is talk about gun control, race, religion, and those lines will light up. that is part of the problem that we have in this industry. . .

5:00 to 6:00 in the afternoon. >> i do an afternoon hour, 5:00 to 6:00. this is my point, because this is my point. think the american people, and much of the audience sports talk radio came to talk radio because they felt alienated and what they were seeing on television and by other media and i think they were tired of being talked down to. think they were tired of being lectured to and i think what makes hugh hewitt so fantastic is that he doesn't lecture like the constitutional law professor. yes he has that knowledge base that he talks to us and i talked to that guy or that mom or dad driving home on the beltway

stuck in traffic trying to get through the day and i get it because i have been there and we all care passionately about this country. just because we don't have that advanced degree or experience our voice matters too. i think there is something very powerful in that. >> joyce i know you want to say something but one of the problems is that attention deficit disorder is a plague as the zika virus or any other problems we face. there's a feeling in media that you don't want to talk about people's heads and there's a feeling you can say whatever you want but you have to get it done by the next commercial break which eyes comes in two or three minutes and in their state minutes of commercials and by the time you come back you can't remember what you are talking about. the fact of the matter is the problems that our society faces are far more complicated than any radio clock or television

clocks. television is even more shallow and there's an epidemic of institutionalized shallowness in the public discussion. the politicians know this. they deal with a brilliantly and it's very difficult to be a host who really cares about the people in cares about the truth in this environment. it's a serious problem that our country faces and our democracy faces. >> politicians want to use our show as public relations. that really ticks me off. i'm listening to the obama administration officials that deals with international affairs on c-span radio. i've been trying to get this individual on for over a year. i see him and i say i will do

your show and is you call and you have these gatekeepers but then they all want to come on when there's an issue that all of us need to be talking about. when they find a news release they are knocking on the door and i come on and i come on and i come on but you wouldn't come on when there's a hot issue that everybody is talking about. we are caught between a rock and a hard spot. >> there are masters at that. they don't answer the question. >> which is why the point about what it is that keeps us motivated. i have a destination radio program because i'm not an morning driver afternoon drive which means people have to return to my radio program to hear me. they cannot turn to my radio program to hear my listeners into and to hear my guests. i was told once by the late great neil rogers talk radio is

the soup. and the meat. the guests are the potatoes and the listeners are the salt and pepper. you want mostly meat. i don't listen to tom to hear his guests. i wanted them. >> now i am hungry. serving lunch? one other thing i'd like to point out, let me just jump in. one of the things along these lines it's getting increasingly difficult to get callers. this may not be the case with every show that there are fewer callers per-capita at this time than there were five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago and the reason for that they don't want to hear what they have to say because they have heard them are ready. oftentimes callers derail a program and the other problem is we are in a society where people have facebook and twitter and their own social media.

there are people living in its actually a psychological thing. a lot of people are living in this reality show psychosis and their life is a reality show being relived on facebook. pardon the reference but they have their own peanut gallery and they go through their life being stars. when i used to do talk radio in l.a. i walked in the studio and i did need have to have the monologue. how i handled them was all he had to do. i didn't have to get it going. today being on the radio is not that big a deal as it was so they are less likely to call. >> one subject in our was the traditional role. >> they insist upon knowing what's happening at that minute and they didn't even know if what you are telling that most

true. there's an incredible appetite and we all make boneheaded mistakes. i decided i would talk about my foot all draft. he called and said enough you there are lots of great sports stations in america. if a listener wants to listen they will probably dial in to espn. what they want is breaking news fairly presented and discussed from a point of view that makes sense. the people who are winning and tom goodwin on the left and i want to go back to that. ncr blocks the development of the centerleft radio because it is centerleft radio. it's actually way left radio and the bbc access. how you a major ways admirable because you were up against government subsidize competition

and god forbid it comes back and local content. it's just the head of government telling people what they want in the case of what i give them breaking news wrapped up with analysis is not what they get. the government will make the choice for them and that will be a disaster. >> thom hartmann has done is amazing. he has created his own platform and has a critical mass of listeners that make a difference in an industry that is not fair. of course i do want to see the fairness doctrine come back because the other side of that point and i do have not answer because nobody else did is that when there was the fairness doctrine there wasn't such a thing as the talk radio industry. there were a few talk shows here and there most of them didn't talk about politics for fear that an irrational government hand would step in and tell them what they can or cannot do, find them or worse take away their

license. >> you could speak to this michael because every year you host the talkers convention we gather in new york and talk about the industry. there are a lot of people in our industry right now that are sitting on the sidelines of talk radio trying to make the sale that all of us are making a mistake by discussing politics at all. >> that's another issue. there's nothing wrong with talking about politics but there are so many signals that don't have ratings and not have as this. why can't they talk about something else? why does it only to be politics? as one-dimensional thinking is the people that are talking politics should stop talking about politics and start talking about something else. no, you can't talk about politics too much. it's an important topic and it will never go away. people are tired of politics. they don't know history. maybe only sex is bigger. and you think about all the

frequencies out there and all the possibilities out there and even within your own shows the diversity as human beings on the air within your show as larry pointed out i think it's a shame there is no other kind of talk radio and politics and sports right now. >> the great thing about this election is it has lots of politics and lots of sex. [laughter] i want to say one thing. i'm trying to talk as little as possible but have you noticed we haven't talked about sex? >> the fairness doctrine thing i'll be open-minded about it and i'm not looking for -- so i don't want to be misunderstood. i just enjoy that critical thinking. i just enjoy listening to both sides. i enjoy being able to debate both sides and understand both

sides and then coming to a conclusion. i just miss those days and programmers want to do it voluntarily, that's fine. i really mean that but you don't do that now. it just doesn't exist. you tune into a show and i think and i may be wrong, i tune into this because they think like i think. >> a home is a talk show host that is extremely -- a local team. we have a lot of home eighth on talk radio and political talk radio but here's the problem in my opinion. we have developed a culture in which we seek victory at the expense of truth. think about that, we seek victory at the expense of truth

as opposed to seeking truth at the expense of victory and that's why debates and discussion and left and right for the sake of a compelling productive result have gone out of style because nobody is listening to anybody who says something other than what they think. i have a question for you to view coming toward the end. i have a question for each of you. give it some thought. we will start with tom and i'm going to bounce around in order so you don't know where it's going to go. if a lecture were held today do you think the result would be any different than if her were held six months from now, one month from now or two weeks ago to prove there is an undecided group in this country this time around that makes a difference and all these debates having any impact? >> yes, i do. i think they are undecided

people but the democratic and republican constituency and the evidence of that is what happened last friday with the sex tape coming out about donald trump and now you have not just republicans voters but you have republican elected officials who are running or the exit. it's not impossible, if not similar but equally newsworthy i suppose. he could come out about secretary clinton for somebody in her campaign. it's possible worse is coming out about donald trump. three weeks, gil cliche is -- and politics. it's historically been true but personally i'll take it matters anymore. we have heard it all. >> we have national debates in which the commentators tell you what's going to be talked about and what the candidates should say in order to win. it's like sports. if they have a good day throwing the ball they will make more

points. >> if that turns out to be the case secretary clinton's private e-mails are disqualifying a moment and there could be other major offense so it could change two or three times. >> chris i won hundred% agree with you on that. i wouldn't have thought a major presidential candidate could be caught on videotape seizing and being lifted into a van a month ago. i found that devastating and now that's all. >> i agree. if secretary clinton has another public health episode that could be a game-changer but also anyone who is trying to predict what's going to happen in this election cycle is playing the fool's game. i made one prediction this entire time early on in 2015 when i said on the air the jeb bush would not be the nominee even though all the polls and

the monies said he would. by the way back to that really quickly if he hadn't been seen as such a giant frontrunner so early on i. [bleep] may have gotten back in. i think he thought jeb had locked up the establishment money and he wasn't to be able to compete. had come back and run again this would be over already. >> interesting choice. >> we are in uncharted territory so i agree. i don't think you can make in the diction -- prediction. the hand we have never had so much early voting going on so in many ways when you tabulate those results it won't add or what happens in two weeks if you have bartik cast your vote. >> i think i heard someone say budgets. it's really overnight in a lifetime of politics. we all would agree that it's the

event, no question. somebody told me yesterday that they believe the opposite side of hillary clinton is something is going to come down that may change everything because that's just the way it is. overnight is a lifetime in politics. i've predict that donald trump may win the popular vote in hillary clinton is going to win the electoral vote. all hell is going to break loose because donald trump is going to argue that it was a conspiracy that all these guys were involved. >> sit tight. i want to introduce a gentleman who is extremely important in this whole thing happening. he is an up-and-coming captain of industry and our radio industry. i wish there were more like him. he is the ceo and founder old gold media group based out of pennsylvania spreading into new york state and eventually the

world. he has the old gold media foundation which i'm proud to be on the board of directors which has raised money to support student broadcasting and study the constitution in that regard and he is a great broadcaster. we owe him a debt of service, a debt for his service and that is bense benedetto. bands would you come up and say a few words? [applause] >> i want to thank the panel. that was great, wasn't it? what did you guys think? [applause] and a debt to michael harrison. there is no greater defender of our industry radio than this man right here. please give them a round of applause. [applause] i also want to thank him for making today hear one of my worst nightmares come true which

is having to speak after six great radio talkshow hosts. i love radio and in full disclosure i've never been on the radio and i could never be in the radio. i believe in the medium. i got out of the air force and put a company together to start to acquire radio stations. i believe it's the modern-day town hall. i think it's where americans gather to listen to the issues of the day. it's the ultimate example of free speech and why it must be preserved. i also believe that it has a fantastic future. if you are living in the golden age of audio, the average consumer consuming audio at a record clip. people are consuming more information and more audio every single day and this is radio

wheelhouse. it's what we do best is create content at the end of the day and as i say in local media groups the radio today is not just on air. sands air on line mobile, social life and local and has a tremendously great future. talk radio is uniquely important. it's the most demanding media news talk format and the hardest to have the greatest host and i'm a big believer in young people getting into this medium. also young people aspiring to want to do with the great folks on this panel have done. as such it's an honor to work with hilldale college to get them their first fm radio station. i want to welcome to great students in the program. raise your hand. [applause] all of this is for you and we have the general manager scott

or term acknowledged earlier. we need that bench. if you continue to flourish for the sake of our country and for the sake of the medium and i'm proud to have been part of that and i want to thank all of you for coming here today. thank you, michael. [applause] >> thank you very much and thanks to hillsdale college in thank you to this panel. i am very proud to have moderated this panel. thom hartmann, hugh hewitt, joyce kaufman joe madison larry o'connor and chris degaulle -- chris eagle we made it through the most contentious issue of our time the election of 2016 and we took the very high road. i'm so grateful to all of you and so proud of our industry, proud of this audience proud to be associated with hillsdale and

wish you all well and that concludes this conversation. thank you all. [applause] [inaudible conversations]